[Adium-devl] My thoughts on msnp15 vs. msn-pecan

[Eric Richie]

On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 10:05 AM, Mark Janssen <praseodym at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 3:52 PM, Daniel Lj <dimmuxx at yahoo.se> wrote:
> > I probably know more about how stable msnp15 is than anybody else here so
> I
> > figured I should write down my thoughts about the subject on msnp15 vs.
> > msn-pecan here.
> >
> > Msnp15 is my opinion is really stable and I have been using it almost
> 24/7
> > for three months now. There have been issues, bugs, crashes along the way
> > but much less than I thought it would be and in it's current state all
> the
> > bad stuff that I have experienced is fixed.
> >
> > I haven't tested msn-pecan but I can't imagine that it would be more
> stable
> > than msnp15 is in it's current state. If you look in my thread on the
> forum
> > you can see that most people are reporting that it works well for them
> and
> > it's usually hard to get people to write something if it works great for
> > them and especially in a forum where you have to register. It's often the
> > people that have problems that write angry messages instead.
> >
> > Then there is the issue that in the past issues with msn in libpurple
> didn't
> > receive enough attention but at the moment bugs that are properly
> reported
> > are fixed almost instantly and a lot of people are working on it. This
> might
> > change again but the same thing might happen with msn-pecan and the risk
> is
> > greater that it happens for msn-pecan since it doesn't have a lot of
> > developers which libpurple does.
> >
> > Msnp15 supports offline messages which is very important in msn since
> it's
> > used when you communicate with invisible users and it's also important
> that
> > you at least can receive them since some of your friends might send you
> > pretty important info while you are being offline and they don't know
> that
> > you are using an old protocol which cannot receive them.
> >
> > It looks like that you soon will be able to receive them in msn-pecan at
> > least but that might not be ready or stable enough in time for Adium 1.3.
> >
> > I have three possible solutions to get msnp15 in Adium as fast as
> possible.
> >
> > #1 Make a 1.3b8-msnp15 build which is available on beta.adiumx.com at
> the
> > same time as 1.3b8 is released so some users will test msnp15 but the
> > majority will stick with msn-pecan.
> >
> > #2 Make 1.3b8 with msnp15 but don't appcast it and be ready with 1.3b9
> with
> > msn-pecan. Since it will only be on beta..adiumx.com you can write a lot
> of
> > information about it and that people should only update to it if they
> wanna
> > help test msnp15 and otherwise they should wait for 1.3b9 which will be
> > released in like 24-48h or just appcast 1.3b8 and update the info if
> msnp15
> > is considered to be stable enough.
> >
> > #3 Release 1.3.1b1 with msnp15 almost instantly after 1.3 is released to
> get
> > a lot of testing done with msnp15 so that it can be enabled for 1.3.1.
> >
> > If you decide to do anything with msnp15 you should add something in the
> > blod about it so that everyone can leave comments without having to
> > register.
> >
> > The problem with all the solutions is that some people might stick with
> the
> > old msnp15 build if it's not considered stable enough to be default. But
> I
> > know that msnp15 is stable enough so the chance of that happening is
> slim.
> >
> > /Dimmuxx
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> >
> >
>
> I've been lurking on the Adium mailing list for a couple of weeks now,
> and the whole msn-pecan vs. msnp15 discussion should really end for
> 1.3. The Adium team should get out 1.3 sooner than later, only solving
> critical bugs holding back a 1.3 release. No switching around with MSN
> branches, it's not worth the mess so late in the development cycle.
> It'd only mean that it's going to take even longer for the 1.3-fixes
> to reach the masses.


Exactly.  As a I said before, we will not be changing right now.  Yes, in
the future that may be a distinct possibility (in fact it's probably more
likely than not) but it's too late in the cycle.

I'm not going to let us slip into the same mess we had with the release of
1.0 (For those that don't know we had tried switching to a java-based lib
for AIM instead of libpurple's version only to end up changing back again
during the beta process.  Development was underway for well over a year
without seeing it release.). We can't afford to risk letting history repeat
itself like that.  As Evan pointed out, it might even be possible to switch
back for a 1.3.x release (although I might argue that the change was big
enough to warrant calling it 1.4...).

I certainly appreciate all the hard work that Daniel has put in but we can't
let everything else go on hold while we try to straighten out 1 protocol.
 The idea of a 1.3.1 with msnp15 coming out within days of 1.3 would be no
different than simply extending the beta period; 1.3 might as well be 1.3bX
in that case.

I realize that people are clamoring for some of these additional features
but let's look at things objectively for a second.  I challenge anyone to
try to say that msn-pecan is not better than any MSN support we've had in
Adium to date.  It represents a significant step forward from what we had.
 There won't be any one magic bullet to solve all issues all in one fell
swoop.  I certainly don't feel that we are in any way disrespecting our
users by enhancing their experience while at the same time trying to focus
on other aspects of our program.  As we've all said, the switch will
probably happen but it's going to take a little longer than just a few days.

-Eric
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