msn-pecan 0.1 good enough?

[Jordan]

On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 10:22 PM, Felipe Contreras
<felipe.contreras at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 2:53 AM, Jordan <jas8522 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Do you have numbers of how many people requested that feature vs
>>>>> direct file transfers? We do:
>>>>> http://code.google.com/p/msn-pecan/issues/list?can=1
>>>>
>>>> That's still a regression, and a sizable one at that.
>>>
>>> Sizable? That's debatable.
>>>
>>> Besides, I have provided crystal-clear numbers that show that
>>> end-users don't care about that, or at least, they care *way* more
>>> about fast file transfers.
>>
>> This is probably accurate, but what presents a problem for us will be
>> the regression. We will have users who made use of Yahoo contacts on
>> their MSN account who will not be pleased that they can no longer
>> contact them without signing up for a Yahoo account and using that
>> within Adium. I use MSN as my primary protocol in Adium and have never
>> used it to contact Yahoo buddies, however I know that if I had, having
>> the feature taken away would be frustrating.
>
> Suppose you have a user called Steve who uses the MSN -> Yahoo
> feature. Will he be angry if he can no longer contact his Yahoo
> friends? Perhaps, but will he be willing to give up that feature in
> exchange of fast file transfers? If Steve is anything like the typical
> MSN user then yes, he will.

You seem think that's the case, but for our users, it's very likely
not. I also think you are mistaking the typical MSN user for the users
that make use of your bug tracker. In my experience the typical MSN
user rarely fills out bug reports accurately and has no concept of
programming or how to get debug logs, etc. This is also likely one
explanation for why there are few developers working on MSN protocol
support. There is no trade-off to be made here, as Eric has said, if
there are any regressions then we cannot use Pecan.

> Let's remember that the vast majority of MSN users use it because
> their friends use it. Very few would have both MSN and Yahoo contacts

I would agree if I hadn't worked on confusing tickets about it often
enough in the past. And I say past because I haven't worked on any
tickets recently, not because they aren't being filed.

> Moreover, it's *not* big deal to loose that functionality because you
> can always login with a Yahoo account.

If you rework your idea of the typical MSN user to include the Adium
MSN userbase (as described above), then you will conclude that this is
not so easy anymore. One such user likely has no Yahoo account and
doesn't want to create one. If we didn't already have support for it,
then it wouldn't be a problem recommending people do this (we did when
there was no Yahoo<->MSN support in the Pidgin prpl), but it's too
late for that.

>> Despite it not being requested through Google Code, do you (Felipe)
>> think it is something that could be added anytime soon? If we didn't
>> have that regression I see nothing more barring the way to using
>> msn-pecan as the primary MSN prpl in Adium - it seems to be the only
>> remaining issue.
>
> Support for Yahoo contacts will require quite a bit of changes. So
> personally I would not work on that feature unless end-users request
> it as I do not like to work on useless features.
>
> If you can provide some numbers regarding the amount of users that
> want Yahoo support, preferably compared to fast file transfers, that
> would certainly be a good incentive.

There is no need to compare it with direct file transfers as we won't
be using Pecan due to the regression. That said, perhaps Robby and I
(and others?) will take a look through the Adium Trac to get an idea
of how many people are making use of (and voicing their opinions
regarding) the Yahoo contact feature and enter the results in a report
on your Google Code tracker in order to gather support for it.

Since user support is your motivating factor, we will do our best to
represent the Adium userbase of yahoo contact users and perhaps the
feature will show enough support to be added to Pecan. If and when
that time comes, we can compare and evaluate the Pidgin MSN prpl
against Pecan once again for potential inclusion within Adium.

Jordan

[I believe this is in line with what Eric and others have said
previously. Please correct if I am wrong.]