[Adium-devl] Support requests on trac

Sat Sep 13 17:08:08 UTC 2008

Closing a ticket as 'Invalid' should really only be done when the  
ticket is completely out in left field and it's not an Adium issue.

i.e. "Ever since I installed Adium I am unable to see pokes on the  
Facebook website.  I don't see them anymore but I used to and it was  
only since I put your program on my computer that it stopped so please  
fix this!"

or

"Adium won't connect and neither will MSN Messenger, Yahoo, or iChat."

Obviously there's no way we could have caused that so it would be  
considered invalid.  In the past if we needed to close a ticket that  
we couldn't reproduce and there was no information given it was just  
marked as 'worksforme'.  That was however before the existence of the  
pending flag.

Yes, they might then sit in the 'Needs Feedback From Users' milestone  
but that's what it's there for.  We're waiting for feedback on them.   
As Colin also point out, the pending flag will close it after 14 days  
of inactivity.  Really, that makes it even easier to manage.  Before  
we had the pending flag I would mark something as "needs feedback" and  
then just watch my ticket notifications in my email to see when  
someone had replied so I could go back and close them or deal with the  
new reports.

Finally as far as the issue of being rude, there's never a time to be  
rude to people.  If they've submitted a ticket in the first place  
they've been respectful enough to try.  Therefore we should offer the  
same.  Now Colin and I have different attitudes on how to handle  
people who start off being rude from the get-go... but that's alright,  
you can make a personal decision whether to deal with a rude person or  
not.  I certainly won't fault you for letting someone else handle it.   
(You can also get me involved if need be.)

-Eric

On Sep 13, 2008, at 12:08 PM, Colin Barrett wrote:

> First, pending tickets are automatically closed by trac-robot. If  
> that's broken we should fix it.
>
> There's a big difference between the two. You don't need to write  
> several paragraphs. In fact, you don't even have to write more than  
> you originally did in the ticket. Just ask the user to attach the  
> debug log. No matter how many rules we write or how clear that  
> process is, we will get people filing bugs that don't include the  
> necessary information. It is our responsibility to walk them through  
> the process, not theirs to learn it. Some folks might believe  
> otherwise but that is the reality of good customer service, like it  
> or not.
>
> Remember, it is far easier for a user to just not do anything if  
> they are having a problem. They made an effort to come to us because  
> they want help, and we should respect them and the time they have  
> taken to write a report, however flawed that report might be.
>
> You and everyone else on trac does a bang up job most of the time,  
> this is just a rough edge we need to iron out.
>
> -Colin
>
> On Sep 13, 2008, at 8:41 AM, Jordan Schelew wrote:
>
>> I don't see how that example is rude - it's simply to the point. It
>> has a link to a page that tells people how to give us exactly what we
>> need. When I'm going through 50 tickets at a time I don't see how  
>> it's
>> helpful for me to phrase a two paragraph reply every single time, I
>> then am only able to get through half (or less) the number of tickets
>> that we would normally get through, and then the submitters of the
>> tickets that don't get replies don't get helped at all, AND we lose
>> out on those reports because nobody noticed them (happens to about  
>> 70%
>> of submitted tickets unless Robby or I get to them).
>>
>> I also don't see how closing a ticket is really *that* much different
>> from putting it to pending when considering real bug reports from
>> people who are actually able to help by providing information...
>>
>> When closed:
>>  1. The user comments it with new info
>>  2. I am then required to re-open it and milestone it.
>>
>> When pending is used and put in needs feedback from users:
>>  1. The ticket doesn't close
>>  2. It stays in needs feedback from users until someone has the time
>> to go through that milestone (which, based on the tickets currently  
>> in
>> there, isn't that often). OR someone sees the change and milestones  
>> it
>> appropriately
>>
>> Either way it works out... In fact in the first case (when the ticket
>> is closed) we often get people submitting a new report that has all
>> the information required in a well laid-out manner (which I'd rather
>> see than replies of 'tried that - no go' which isn't helpful at all).
>>
>> Now there were a couple tickets from a week or two ago wherein my
>> replies were indeed rude - that was unprofessional of me and not
>> helpful to anybody. I believe Colin pointed that out in a reply and
>> apologized to the user for it - thanks for doing what I should have
>> done  Colin.
>>
>> Jordan
>>
>>
>>
>> On 13-Sep-08, at 12:24 PM, Colin Barrett wrote:
>>
>>> I've recently started watching all ticket changes and I've noticed
>>> something that upsets me. People are closing legitimate bugs from
>>> polite (and not so polite) filers as invalid. Here's an example, but
>>> I've seen dozens of others from several people.
>>>
>>> http://trac.adiumx.com/ticket/11045
>>>
>>> We have a pending flag. We should be using it to ask the user to
>>> attach the debug log. I know trac is supposed to be for tickets,  
>>> but a
>>> lot of people come to it for support as well, and it sucks that they
>>> don't get the same level of polite help that they get on feedback at .
>>>
>>> -Colin
>>>
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>>
>>
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